Hello didnt get a response earlier so will try again. I can either do an engine swap and put a Type R into my civic Ex, which is expensive and will take a few months to save up for, or I can just add a new dc exahust, AEM intake, valve and header, then get a super charger sometime inthe future. Which is the preferred route ? I mean how much faster am I looking to be with new intake,exhaust header and supercharger vs getting the Type R for my car ? Thanks Brad

Great question and I'll tell you.  Because I had the JR blower set up you are referring too I can give you a very accurate answer.  The Type R should be a little faster.  As far as reliability they should be about equal.  I got around 28-32 mpg with that set up too.  It's hard to say which is better, but your car should be down and up faster with the blower.  If you know your way around the intake manifold and have the tools required you should be ok.  The hardest part is taking the underdrive pulley off!  AND DON'T TAP THE STARTERWITH THE BREAKER BAR ON THE PULLEY NUT.  That works for a lot of american cars, but hondas rotate the opposite direction.  OK, I'm getting ahead of myself.  I would go with the blower because it will be a lot cheaper and easier.  But, don't forget that the downside is if you want to go faster, it's hard to do with that blower than the Type R.  The D16Y8 will already be running close to it's capacity.   What I think I would do is consider buying an LS block and slapping on a turbo.  That way you have a lower compression ratio, a cheaper motor and you can run more boost.  That potentially could put you in the 12's.

Dre

 

>

depends on personal preference for how much you want to spend in the long run. i don't know if you saw something i posted about superchargers previously, but usually makers include their own air intakes that will replace any cold-air (or stock) intake you already have. these intakes must be used with the superchargers they come with. so, depending on how long you're going to save up for your supercharger or type r engine, it might make sense to get the CAI (like from AEM).... but if you're saying it's only going to take <6 months for your engine, i'd go with saving for the type r. b/c you can ALWAYS build on that: and any future mods you put to your engine you can make sure matches your specific tuning application (i.e., thinking into the future for what your finished project will be). if time and money allow, why not build a turbo on the type r platform (or supercharger, if you're so inclined)? it is my opinion though that for longevity of any boost-assisted engine you would do better to build a "low-compression" engine and slap on a nice fat turbo. that'll beat a supercharger hands down. if you're into safety- redundancy, build out your type-r engine BEFORE install to be low compression. this will save you time & labor of yanking it out in the future to build it.... when the engine is ready, then slap it in place (w/engine mounts, if needed).... i could go one, but friday night's calling, folks....

another thing that sucks about the D16 is that they don't make an aftermarket intake manifold (to my knowledge). Skunk2 claims they're coming out with one for the D16, but i'll believe it when i see it. would be easier to find something for an LS motor or type r.

Thanks Dre   I like how you guys explain all the technical stuff as it helps me learn more about whats going on ect.  However I am going to have the guys at Indy Import Performance do all the work ect.  Thanks for the info now all I have to do is save up for a couple months and I will be set.   The last thing is that after hearing you guys talk I am thinking its cheaper and more horsepower to do the swap then add turbo then to stick a charger on my single cam engine.   Brad

Great question and I'll tell you.  Because I had the JR blower set up you are referring too I can give you a very accurate answer.  The Type R should be a little faster.  As far as reliability they should be about equal.  I got around 28-32 mpg with that set up too.  It's hard to say which is better, but your car should be down and up faster with the blower.  If you know your way around the intake manifold and have the tools required you should be ok.  The hardest part is taking the underdrive pulley off!  AND DON'T TAP THE STARTERWITH THE BREAKER BAR ON THE PULLEY NUT.  That works for a lot of american cars, but hondas rotate the opposite direction.  OK, I'm getting ahead of myself.  I would go with the blower because it will be a lot cheaper and easier.  But, don't forget that the downside is if you want to go faster, it's hard to do with that blower than the Type R.  The D16Y8 will already be running!  close to it's capacity.   What I think I would do is consider buying an LS block and slapping on a turbo.  That way you have a lower compression ratio, a cheaper motor and you can run more boost.  That potentially could put you in the 12's.

Dre

 

  depends on personal preference for how much you want to spend in the
long run.  i don't know if you saw something i posted about
superchargers previously, but usually makers include their own air
intakes that will replace any cold-air (or stock) intake you already
have.  these intakes must be used with the superchargers they come
with.  so, depending on how long you're going to save up for your
supercharger or type r engine, it might make sense to get the CAI
(like from AEM)....  but if you're saying it's only going to take <6
months for your engine, i'd go with saving for the type r.  b/c you
can ALWAYS build on that: and any future mods you put to your engine
you can make sure matches your specific tuning application (i.e.,
thinking into the future for what your finished project will be).  if
time and money allow, why not build a turbo on the type r platform
(or supercharger, if you're so inclined)?  it is my opinion though
that for longevity of any boost-assisted engine you would do better
to build a "low-compression" engine and slap on a nice fat turbo. 
that'll beat a supercharger hands down.  if you're into safety-
redundancy, build out your type-r engine BEFORE install to be low
compression.  this will save you time & labor of yanking it out in
the future to build it....  when the engine is ready, then slap it in
place (w/engine mounts, if needed)....  i could go one, but friday
night's calling, folks....
  Yeah well Friday night almost killed me... I just woke up :)   Can you guys explain more about low compression ?  Is low compression something you do to achieve more boost potential from a turbo ?  I remember you guys said that the stock engine I have would only allow 25psi boost previously but I take it the Type R with low compression would allow a ton more then ?   I looked at the LS but think the Type R is the way to go.  I should of just bought the 99 Prelude instead of the civic but the payment would of been like 100 bucks more and insurance would of screwed me.   My insurance doubled almost when I got the Civic ???  No idea why, but I guess I never realised that a 127hp honda civic was considered a sports car...   The Type R I like because according to the guy at indy imports its like 210hp vs the GSRs 170.  So for the 1500 more it will cost for the Type R I am going to gain 40hp which is a pretty good deal when compared to the cost of adding 40hp to the gsr later.    Brad

As far as the HP of the type R vs the gsr.  Don't forget that hp is a ratio of rpm to torque.  So if you have a constant torque (for educational purposes) Which ever car has a higher rev limit is going to have more hp.  Now when applied to the type R that's exactly the case.  It revs out at 8.5k instead of 8K.  So, therefore it's not really a fair arguement.  HP sells cars, torque wins races.

In regards to the compression ratio. Your car can't take more than 6-8 psi. The 25 psi is what the eclipse can take.  When you are forcing more air in the combustion chamber the compression ratio rises.  The risk is that once that happens your car detonates at a certain point.  So if you have a lower compression ratio and higher boost, the car will be faster than if you have a higher compression ratio and low boost (like a stock honda). 

I know that's a lot to swallow, but did that make sense?

Dre

>

Yep for the most part.  The only question I have is are you telling me that the GSR has more or less torque then the Type R ?  I think your saying the Type R is the way to go.   Brad

As far as the HP of the type R vs the gsr.  Don't forget that hp is a ratio of rpm to torque.  So if you have a constant torque (for educational purposes) Which ever car has a higher rev limit is going to have more hp.  Now when applied to the type R that's exactly the case.  It revs out at 8.5k instead of 8K.  So, therefore it's not really a fair arguement.  HP sells cars, torque wins races.

In regards to the compression ratio. Your car can't take more than 6-8 psi. The 25 psi is what the eclipse can take.  When you are forcing more air in the combustion chamber the compression ratio rises.  The risk is that once that happens your car detonates at a certain point.  So if you have a lower compression ratio and higher boost, the car will be faster than if you have a higher compression ratio and low boost (like a stock honda). 

I know that's a lot to swallow, but did that make sense?

Dre

>

I'm pretty sure that the Type R has a little more tourque but not too much.  I would go with an LS Turbo.

Dre

>

Ok thanks thats what I need to know.   Brad

I'm pretty sure that the Type R has a little more tourque but not too much.  I would go with an LS Turbo.

Dre

>

Remove me from this list please.  I have E-mailed the remove link for Yahoo SEVERAL times I am still here... time to get obnoxious I guess

Remove me from this list please.  I have E-mailed the remove link for Yahoo SEVERAL times I am still here... time to get obnoxious I guess

when i mentioned that your D16 could take (max) 25 psi of boost, that was on a fully built motor, not stock. dre is right about 6-8 psi max boost on a stock motor. also, i thought the type r motor was -stock- 195 hp, not 210 (and the gsr was something like 175-185 hp). i am more certain about the type r number than the gsr one. i'm not going to diss the ls engine vs. the type r though. both are excellent. it's just that when you're wanting to squeeze as much out of your block as possible, the type r will edge out on top. and it has (comparatively) a more rock-solid construction in stock form. the better your base, the more your piece of mind when you start doing 'sick' things to the car. ;) but that's just me. from what i've heard about type r's, some guys feel comfortable enough to leave the internals stock, b/c that engine was BUILT from the ground up to scream as a racer... it just sounds different. very cool... the only reason i would want to put stiffer parts inside a type r is if i would potentially be going way beyond in boost what an 'r' could normally handle. you'd do this for one of 2 reasons: that you really are going to build 'sick' power, or you want the peace of mind that you're not stressing your internals over moderate power. i would love to build a type r swap w/turbo and push the limit (get into/past the 400hp range, if possible), while keeping it 'streetable'. but alas, my pocketbook doesn't currently agree with me, and i would want to do more research on that first anyways. in my mind also is that no matter how your engine is, your tranny needs to be able to put that to the wheels (so what if your engine doesn't blow, but your transmission does b/c it's too weak to handle the torque generated by the engine? - you'll still be going nowhere!). that repair is an equal pain in the ass. so i would recommend looking into this (planning it out) concurrently. don't feel like it's overwhelming (looking @ tranny & engine @ the same time). at least in the planning stages - if you're getting an experienced mechanic to do the work anyways - it should be just as fun. in the end, you should be able to look back and see that you've built your very own beautiful beast, able to take turbo & nitrous (if you so desire, 1 or 2-stage)! p.s. have you considered aftermarket fuel pumps, injectors, and fuel rails? to make useable all that extra hp, you're gonna need to be able to get more fuel/air into the engine to make it so that you get the proper mix for correct functionality. forgive me if you already know this, but as added bonus to aftermarket fuel rails they usually have built-in ports for a nitrous system (mixing the NO2 w/the air/fuel) to plug in, if you want to use them. but different nitrous systems have different places (easier vs. harder to install) where they access the fuel delivery system.

  Hi David Thanks alot for the info.  You guys know your stuff.  The price I was Quoted for the Type R engine, the clutch, new tranny and some other stuff I cant remember what was a total of like 7k installed.  He goes thru the motor to make sure everything is good, and after he installs it he tests everything to make sure when it leaves the shop its perfect.  I went in originally to buy a new intake, and exhaust and header when he told me that my engine was single Cam(?) and told me that putting a chip in would not be a good idea.  Basically he told me to save my money and do the whole thing right.  This is like a week ago after I had already been talking to you guys.  He basically agreed with everything you guys said.   What I am wanting to do with this car is take it to the track on Tuesday nights and go faster then any other civic :)  I mean I couldnt afford a faster stock car so am just working with what I have.  I probably should of just saved up a few more thousand for a down payment and bought a 250 hp prelude, or maybe even a Nissan maxima but hey hindsight is 20/20 :)   I am into performance more then looks, I want like a normal looking car that hauls ass.  I want to be driving to work in the morning and blow away people at the light that ( you know the guys that floor it at every stoplight ).    I just got my first ever sound system put in.  Sounds awesome.  2 10 inch Audiobahn subs, 1 Audiobahn amp, the rest is all jvc head unit and speakers.  I got a good deal and it was all installed for 926.45 including tax !  I just need to amp my other speakers because the Base is so awesome its drowning out my fronts to much I think.    Brad
when i mentioned that your D16 could take (max) 25 psi of boost, that
was on a fully built motor, not stock.  dre is right about 6-8 psi
max boost on a stock motor.

also, i thought the type r motor was -stock- 195 hp, not 210 (and the
gsr was something like 175-185 hp).  i am more certain about the type
r number than the gsr one.  i'm not going to diss the ls engine vs.
the type r though.  both are excellent.  it's just that when you're
wanting to squeeze as much out of your block as possible, the type r
will edge out on top.  and it has (comparatively) a more rock-solid
construction in stock form.  the better your base, the more your
piece of mind when you start doing 'sick' things to the car. ;)  but
that's just me.  from what i've heard about type r's, some guys feel
comfortable enough to leave the internals stock, b/c that engine was
BUILT from the ground up to scream as a racer...  it just sounds
different.  very cool...  the only reason i would want to put stiffer
parts inside a type r is if i would potentially be going way beyond
in boost what an 'r' could normally handle.  you'd do this for one o