ok, first off thanks for the info/diagrams. I checked everything out and found the stuff you were talking about. With the car off, it was just like the the one on the throttle body, I could open and close it at will. Then I started the car and with it Idling I tried it again, and it wasnt the least bit different. I looked over the vaccuum lines briefly and didnt see any cracks breaks or cuts. And the car idles fine, (except when its hot, it chugs a bit) which just tells me that theres not an obvious leak somewheres. just for kicks, I think on my way home today im going to try tieing that open with a string or something, just to see if i notice a running difference. after all this I think your right about it most likely being that diaphragm assy going bad that controls the butterflies. Which im not eager about replacing. maybe ill take it off and try to open it up to see if theres anything obviously wrong with it. thanks again for all your help and keep me posted with new stuff you find. josh